Curse

Ajaala · Oct 12, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Well, already banned three times, so I probably won't care about a fourth. I'll see what I can do to help this projectoness.

Great!

Also guys, make sure you keep checking the map list, its updated fast and I don't want you to waste your time.

icedwhitemocha · Oct 12, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Thanks for the quick replies Ajaala, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

Bryant Again · Oct 12, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Same here, thanks for the help : )

fenix · Oct 12, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

From what I can gather, GWLP seems to be like Garry's Mod, but for Guild Wars. For those who don't know, here's what wiki says about it;

"Garry's Mod is a game modification. While GMod does not possess any actual gameplay value in a traditional sense, it enables the player to freely manipulate all of the objects and features of the Source engine except for the background features."

GWLP seems to be sort of like this, in that you can mess around with things that GW can do. Except that you can play with other people...which is cool.

Chthon · Oct 12, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

This project sounds really cool. However, I will not, at this time, be helping out.

Here's why:
I see one of three fates for this project. (1) It never gets off the ground. Game mechanics never really work. It's not worth touching. (2) You get the mechanics and the skills working, and people start playing PvP. Of course, they do it with skills from campaigns they never bought and -- POW -- a-net comes and shuts you down, just like Gaile is insinuating they would. (3) You work with a-net to produce some sort of ID system that verifies users own certain chapters.
(1) and (2) seem a heck of a lot more likely than (3) for two reasons. First, getting a-net to implement something on their end so that your emulator will run seems doubtful. In their best moments, a-net can be a different sort of company, maybe even an enlightened sort of company, but I don't think that goes so far as implementing features to make player side projects works. Second, I'm having a really hard time imagining what sort of a system would make verification work without either a call to the real GW database (which kinda defeats the point of running your own server) or giving you a chunk of everyone's account info (which is an unacceptable security and privacy breach). I promise to think about it though. Maybe something with a twice-PGP-encrypted client side record?... <ponders>
So, the bottom line is: It's very likely I'm looking at a project doomed to fail or doomed to shut down because it succeeded. In either case, it's a waste of my time to mess with it.

However, I will make you this deal: If you can talk with a-net and work out a verification system that will allow you to run worthwhile content on your server (fully-functional PvP at the very least) and satisfy a-net on the piracy issue, and procure an official announcement from a-net that the agreed-upon system satisfies them, then I'd be glad to help out. (You might even convince me to code a bit for you.)

DarkNecrid · Oct 12, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

you cant use content (skills) you dont have access too.

//RogueNine · Oct 12, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

fyi to anyone wondering.. server emulation projects GENERALLY end in their own failure. It takes alot of work and alot of time to get things right. If you dont have the right team for it you will never complete it.

Currently there is a bunch of emulator projects people are waiting on for Star Wars Galaxies.. the game that Sony Online totally ruined to try and get a greater share of WoW's revenue. Anyways some of these teams have disbanded, ground against eachother and even themselves. 2 Years later we still have no fully implemented servers.

holababe · Oct 12, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by //RogueNine

fyi to anyone wondering.. server emulation projects GENERALLY end in their own failure. It takes alot of work and alot of time to get things right. If you dont have the right team for it you will never complete it.

Currently there is a bunch of emulator projects people are waiting on for Star Wars Galaxies.. the game that Sony Online totally ruined to try and get a greater share of WoW's revenue. Anyways some of these teams have disbanded, ground against eachother and even themselves. 2 Years later we still have no fully implemented servers.

GWLP was in development for more than 9 months before it went into closed alpha. Idle in the IRC channel and you'll see that they know what they're on about.

Clord · Oct 12, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Extremely few servers overall in MMORPG side give you years good experience while playing comparable to official ones (Ragnarok Online).

However, games like WoW what are heavy to run in server side, have not yet got even one public long time running private server what can hold without too much performance etc problems so many players like official servers. Private community's nature avoid paying to play game, really ruin funding to private server keepers via donations.

holababe · Oct 12, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

Extremely few servers overall in MMORPG side give you years good experience while playing comparable to official ones (Ragnarok Online).

That's very true. I only use private servers as a 'getaway' where I can have some meaningless fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

However, games like WoW what are heavy to run in server side, have not yet got even one public long time running private server what can hold without too much performance etc problems so many players like official servers. Private community's nature avoid paying to play game, really ruin funding to private server keepers via donations.

There are some:
Raiden's WoW (now closed)
WoWGasm (still running)
Xenocide/AlicesFantasy (OK, I'm biased here because I was an admin)
OrangeVirus (18 mnths+)
Ravencrest (2 yrs+)

l3j · Oct 12, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Attached is the current database layout (SQL batch file for MySQL 5) for those who are curious. Ajaala and I welcome suggestions.

Ghost Recon · Oct 12, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

Extremely few servers overall in MMORPG side give you years good experience while playing comparable to official ones (Ragnarok Online).

However, games like WoW what are heavy to run in server side, have not yet got even one public long time running private server what can hold without too much performance etc problems so many players like official servers. Private community's nature avoid paying to play game, really ruin funding to private server keepers via donations.

The reason WoW private servers tend to fail is because of player counts. WoW is a very large game and with most private servers only having a few hundred players each, they fail. GW doesn't need a large player base to take full advantage from the game because you can only have 8 in a party anyway.

pkodyssey · Oct 12, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

It seems to me that this will end up getting ugly quick. The OP and his "team" are balancing an ultra fine line with regard to legality and the restrictions of the EULA.

Gaile's "tone" is not one of support, but one of we have an eye on you, and if you get anywhere close to crossing the fine line your walking we are going to supply you with the biggest dose of smack-down you have ever seen.

I would suggest caution to the OP. Anet/NCsoft has many more legal resources, and a lot more cash then you do and if you go to far you will never see the light of day.

Good luck

DarkNecrid · Oct 12, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Not one of support thats why she said they saw good in it for the community.

Mkay.

Hengis · Oct 12, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Interesting concept, doubtful legality, but the bottom line for me is:

Would I voluntarily install a packet sniffer on my PC and then send the data to someone I don't know?

Not a chance in hell!

Gusnana1412 · Oct 12, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

My reply from : http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=1#post3216587

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaala

Thank you for responding Gaile, I'd like to post a comment from the project lead for you and everyone else interested in the project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWLP Project Leader

GWLP is being developed with existing players in mind, as such we do not aim nor condone copying or emulating the Guild Wars plot, storyline, missions, quests, NPC layouts and so on. Instead we aim to allow users to develop their own quests, their own missions, their own Guild Wars themed sandbox. Our server will be in no way a replacement for the official server, even if players who did not own the official chapters were to play on it, they would not be playing Guild Wars or taking part in the Guild Wars experience.
That said, we plan to implement an authorization system that allows players access to only the content they have purchased. The authorization system will run in the background when you log into your official account, it will monitor incoming packets and read what you have access too on your account. It then encrypts this information and sends it to the server you wish to play on, the server immediately stores it in the database and allows you to use only the content that you own. The data that is gathered for authorizing a player can in no way be used to find that person's official account.

This project is being developed by and for Guild Wars fans, we hold both ArenaNet and Guild Wars in high regard and would hate to harm the community in any way. We believe our project to be only beneficial and not at all a substitute for playing on the live servers. We hope to maintain a good relationship with ArenaNet.

Reading data from other users data/connection or intercept data between User and GW should not that be Illegal action?

Note for ANet, by the so called "implement an authorization system" from GWLP Project, it shows that there will be a need to improve data encryption between GW Server and Client. Meaning that *collecting* other users data from third party is possible hence it should be fully encrypted informations and not visible for third party to intercept.

====

Additional

1. This Project don't have full support from ANet.
2. This Project don't have access to User Database legally or not under ANet control.
3. This Project linked to user Official Account to Play GW.

===

This kind of project should not linked to original account by any means (except officialy state by ANet).

There should be different account to be use for this kind of Project and not to put the content available to the user who don't have the official access key, only by proposing to ANet to have cooperation about this project (not only permission to run the server) This matter for what Gaile's reply concerning

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

... Our view on this project is that it must assure that the emulator can only possibly be used by people who own a legitimate copy of Guild Wars and that those using the server emulator have access only to the content that they have purchased. For instance, users should not be able to access maps, professions, skills, or any other content from a campaign they do not own. ...

.

That being said, this project should know what kind of user that allowed to access the contents and there are a few ways to know. But the only legal action that can be used for this project are for proposing cooperation with ANet to know the user ownership of the contents (only to know if this specific user has access to what content).

Therefore I think knowing accesbility/ownership of the user account by intercept the data that being send is not legal.

===

Benefits from this kind of project

1. Community can share what *improvement* could be make to improve current game.
2. ANet could evaluate the *improvement* and testing out the *improvement* with public, without hurting the real game.

===

Negative Note from my self

Using official account or key is a no no without the project being supervise by ANet itself.~

impression · Oct 12, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

You asked about the permissability of this project, and I'd like to respond:

With any project of the nature of this server emulator, the primary concern of the game developer is piracy. Our view on this project is that it must assure that the emulator can only possibly be used by people who own a legitimate copy of Guild Wars and that those using the server emulator have access only to the content that they have purchased. For instance, users should not be able to access maps, professions, skills, or any other content from a campaign they do not own. If at any time we find that the emulator is being used for piracy or to access official Guild Wars content that was not purchased through NCsoft or ArenaNet, we will pursue its closure.

Hi,

I will start by saying that I still remember a very, very, small group of people trying to understand how Guild Wars worked in some emulator development forums (in RaGEZONE forums I think). I am glad this has involved to a solid project.

Now, to the serious stuff.
I understand that the GWLP team its trying to develop a project that will not promote piracy but, once the server is out you can be sure that someone will hack it to allow the creation of servers where people can play without owing a valid Guild Wars account. It's inevitable.

The reason I see for ANeT to allow the GWLP project to grown is the imminent discontinuity of Guild Wars 1. If the community creates and maintains a solid Guild Wars server emulator, with constant contend updates, this will allow ANeT to shutdown there GW1 servers sooner and save them some cash. Or, if the GWLP team manages to created a solid authorization system (reducing considerably the expect piracy), extend the live of GW1 and get some extra cash to ANeT.

Now that this project as arrive to the front page I will wait and see what ANeT and the Guild Wars community feel about it. Until then, the above are my two cents for the discussion

.

Have fun,
impression

Ajaala · Oct 12, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Please reread the method of authorization I posted earlier in the thread.

impression · Oct 12, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaala

Please reread the method of authorization I posted earlier in the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWLP Project Leader

That said, we plan to implement an authorization system that allows players access to only the content they have purchased. The authorization system will run in the background when you log into your official account, it will monitor incoming packets and read what you have access too on your account. It then encrypts this information and sends it to the server you wish to play on, the server immediately stores it in the database and allows you to use only the content that you own.

I have read and understand the authorization method (I think :P). The method relies in the fact that both the player and the server administrator will run "clean" versions of both the emulator and the "verification software". What I mean is, a player can modify the "verification software" to tell the server that he has everything unlocked or, a server administrator can modify their server copy to unlock everything to all players.

Have fun,
impression

Josh · Oct 12, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by impression

I have read and understand the authorization method (I think :P). The method relies in the fact that both the player and the server administrator will run "clean" versions of both the emulator and the "verification software". What I mean is, a player can modify the "verification software" to tell the server that he has everything unlocked or, a server administrator can modify their server copy to unlock everything to all players.

Have fun,
impression

Erm, no - not quite. That's not even possible as far as I know..